From gearbox software who back in the day did all those half life add ons blue shift etc. comes this so called Role Play Shooter. It features a class system with various class specific ability upgrade paths (3 separate paths you can put points into for each class) and a parametric weapon system making each gun fairly unique.
The graphics are sort of pseudo cell shaded with exaggerated lines mostly on the textures and fairly bright colours which makes the visual stand out and the world is populated by a variety of colourful characters (who want to kill you) and elaborately designed alien monsters (who want to eat you). All of which you blow away with an arsenal of weaponry and even use your car to run over. This is yet another unreal engine 3 game though it seems to have missed some of the newer tweaks that stop it doing that tell tale texture fade in thing that is a dead give away in UE3 games. Still it looks pretty good if a little stylised.
The story goes that you are on the planet pandora an alien world full of danger both from human scum and aggressive indigenous life forms. You are a treasure hunter and you are searching the wasteland for the mythical vault an alien strong hold said to contain riches, alien technology, and pretty much anything you might feasible want.
You pick from 4 classes each with their own special abilities focus and skill tree. There is Mordecai the Hunter whose special ability is that he has a bird that can go peck things. Rolland the Soldier who can summon turrets. Lilith the Siren who can enter phase walk allowing her to move invisibly about for a bit and then strike from behind or just escape. The there is Brick who is basically a melee tank character.
Supposedly the characters each have their own back story but I didn't notice that and I only know because it is mentioned on Wiki.
As you level your character you get points that can be added to 3 separate skill trees usually revolving around enhancing your special ability defensive buffs or just doing more damage with guns. So in my Siren character I have a load of points in shield capacity boosts and then some in making me regenerate health when I phase walk which comes in handy.
As a shooter the game is fairly standard you have a variety of weapons (pistols, revolvers ,shotguns ,smg, sniper rifle, rocket launcher, machine gun, grenades, and the alien weapons which I've not come across yet) you have two slots for carrying weapons (which as the game progresses gets added to up to a maximum of four active slots) and you can switch between weapons in game with the industry standard mouse wheel. You can also quickly swap stuff in and out from the backpack time is paused when you are in it. You have a shield which protects you from damage and it's a standard halo job where it regenerates when out of fire, it's another thing you can swap out for better fancier shields which have better capacity recharge faster or add elemental damage or resistance. My favourite is the health regenerating shield.
Left click to fire right click to zoom or just look down the sights, so far so standard. The game uses a location specific damage system with things like head shots or shots to vulnerable places (some of the aliens have armoured heads and the like but vulnerable torsos or some such) gives bonus damage and can cause a critical for extra damage. Weapons also have the option to have elemental damage which is effective against different things. Fire does a nice DOT effect as does corrosive but that also reduces armour. Shock reduces shield and explosive has a chance to detonate for massive damage.
Each weapon has various stats (damage, accuracy, rate of fire, magazine size) and the weapons drop fairly frequently or can be bought from vending machines. The parametric random weapon stats system means that what you find will be randomised to a certain degree with the usual text describing the weapon stipulating how rare it is White normal, green rare, blue extra rare, purple unique/special stuff you get off bosses etc. The game has a fairly effective comparison system that you can get to by right clicking a weapon allowing you to quickly see what is junk. It also pops up a comparison window in the world when you find a weapon comparing it to your currently active one which is a nice timesaver allowing you to evaluate if it's worth picking up.
As you use weapons you gain experience in that class of firearms so there is an incentive to stick with one weapon to gain the most upgrades in that class. I found I tended to have a few favourites and swap between them as ammo and targets dictated. You can carry a set amount of ammo but you can purchase upgrades to that as the game progresses.
Monsters and humans typically drop stuff on death sometimes ammo sometimes money more rarely weapons. You encounter new weapons often enough that I found the inventory often a bit small and was having to just leave stuff behind rather than take it.
The one final upgrade is the grenade mods which change the behaviour of your grenades making them do various elemental damage or act as land mines or bounce or stick to things or even transfuse health to you. It's yet another little thing to upgrade and swap out as the game progresses.
At some point you unlock the vehicle stations allowing you to spawn a sort of buggy thing which has a rocket booster and is armed with a machine gun and your choice of rocket launcher or secondary machine gun, it comes in a array of selectable colours. And has at least 2 seats for multiplayer. You can then use the car to run things down or shoot them but you get less xp for that so I tend to use it for getting about.
The game is based around quests that you pick up from either people or from bulletin boards scattered through the game world. Usually you will have a hub which is giving out missions in the surrounding area (occasionally you need to travel outside this area for a set of missions this becomes more likely as the game progresses and the areas become bigger) once you have finished all the missions in an area and usually defeated a boss character of some sort it unlocks the next hub area which has more missions. Missions are typically kill this or that or collect some item in the world (usually killing all the things guarding it) not a lot of variety but it stays interesting for the most part.
The difficulty level for each area rises as you progress and the mission difficult is listed. Usually you can take monsters your level and maybe one or two higher depending on what upgrades you posses and how lucky you've been at finding kick arse weaponry. Any enemy much beyond that will usually shred you into little pieces, you often won't even make a dent in their health. So it becomes a cycle of clearing out the lower level missions to level up then taking on the tougher stuff and then going back for more till it's time to meet the boss.
The game is fairly forgiving on death when you run out of health you have a chance to regain it if you kill something before the timer runs out. This is primarily for the multi player options to allow team mates the chance to come revive you but it can be effective in single player. If you do die you just re spawn at the last save post (they are scattered over the land like cell phone towers) and loose some money. It means if you are just on the edge or misjudge a fight it's not too crippling a mistake.
As to how it plays it's very much a FPS crossed with an action RPG like diablo. Having been playing torchlight recently there are a lot of similarities. Kill everything in sight collect all their crap compare any weapons with what you've got swap out for any better one flog the crap at the town and continue. The character progression system with it's simple small upgrades to the characters abilities is very action rpg like. It's a tried and tested formula it's just the package has changed from click fest hack and slash to fps head shot mania and it works pretty well.
At times I found myself at times wishing for the pet system in torchlight as the limited inventory space and relatively high percentage of weapon drops had me running out of room. You also occasionally find really good stuff you can't yet use due to it's level requirement then all you can do it hang on to it in you back pack, you could have done with a stash in town you could use to dump good stuff you still want but don't want to be carrying around taking up precious inventory space.
The story is fairly weak there is the thing about the vault but for the most part you are just doing random missions and then now and then there is the odd sniff of something to do with the vault then back to killing 10 of x for some guy who is offering a fancy sniper rifle as a result.
The one are that it really falls down in is controls, it was obviously designed for consoles and then hacked to work on a pc this means the GUI has a bizarre mix of controls that are fairly counter intuitive. Parts of it require the mouse others need the keyboard and you end up having to fiddle around to get it to work. They really should have fixed that before release as it is very shoddy work making any interaction with the GUI (like getting missions or buying stuff or even rearranging you inventory) awkward and frustrating. It also has a pretty poor default keymap with things like grenade too far off to hit with WASD positioning. It also has skills like crouch as toggles rather than momentary which means in the heat of a fight you can often find yourself crawling about the place, not so good if you are trying to run for cover.
There are various tweaks out there to fix some of these issues though I've not got them to work with the steam version of the game yet.
The game is designed to function in co-op with up to 4 players (with any character class so you could have 4 bricks if you wanted) I've not tired this out so am not sure how that works.
All in all it's a fairly compelling game the mix of action rpg collect-em up weaponry with fps mechanics and fun vehicles and I suspect a lot of fun to be had in multi player. Well worth a look see.
Comments
I've come to the conclusion that I have a bit of an issue where they have bolted on RPG levelling for no real reason... It seems to be a bit of a trend these days. It ruined the GTA games (hey, stop killing people and do boring stuff instead!), and blunted games like BF2142.
Fingers crossed they don't add something like this into the L4D series, or (even worse) UT.
I don't think the RPG levelling is bolt on here. The levelling system is really a way of measuring how difficult the game might be. If you are level 7 say and a mission is level 11. You know it's going to be tough. Conversely, if you leave a mission for a bit and come back to it, you find that it is listed as Trivial. Then it turns into a comedy walkover. Levelling is pretty intrinsic but it doesn't get in the way. You level up as you go through the game normally, rather than being forced to do boring shit.
I think the levelling aspect adds to replay value. If I play L4D, I know the characters are all the same and offer no difference at all. What makes it fun is other people. In Borderlands, other people will make it a GREAT laugh but there is more reason to do just one more mission.
I also like the limited inventory. If you make it too big, you end up spending hours sorting through it (Fallout 3), whereas a smallish one (you can still carry 4 types of shield and 6 guns) forces you to think about the build of your character a bit. With the point assignment bit, you are pushed to think about the build again. This gives it great replay factor. I chose the stock Soldier and have been pumping points into my turret thing. All I need to do is remember to deploy the thing.
Vehicles controls are a bit consoley-cockeye where you drive in the direction you points, rather than WASD. Which is a bit annoying but I'm used to it now.
It just encourages grinding, rather than playing the game. I'd rather do one more mission as the game is fun, rather than becasue I may get an additional +0.1% strength.
I've worked out that I don't like it by looking at games I've played where levelling/RP elements were added, and also looking at games I've enjoyed in their own right
BF2142 - equipment unlocks - crap idea in any competitive game where he who has played longer gets better kit. Experience should be it's own reward.
GTA - game got progressively worse for me as they went on. GTA3 was a very pure experience, and probably the best "sandbox" game I've played. As the RP'esque elements were added it moved the player away from the fun parts of the game
Max Payne - no levelling, great story, loved both of the games. Good use of progressive and adaptive difficulty
UT/L4D - well executed FPS games, with clean, simple gameplay. Experience is it's own reward.
I'm not slating RP games in and of themselves...Torchlight is a good example of a game done well...based almost exclusivly around loot'n'level, but I think many developers use it to add game-play hours by causing repetition, rather than progression. It's also a way of dodging decent AI...just add more HP to a beastie, and make the player grind lower levels for a while...
That's a good point Pete. I don't like grind either. However the missions in Borderlands are fun and it doesn't really feel like grind. I quite often level up without realising and then have fun trying to work out what to pump up next. I'm not playing the game to level up, I'm playing the game and levelling up is a happy side effect.
What it does do is allow you to play the game very differently. Putting loads of points into my turret means I can deploy it, hide while I regain health and then attack once the turret has softened up the baddies. Next character I make, I will select a different bunch of stats to improve that will allow me to play differently.
Why not just make that a class-based skill (ala Team Fortress, or Tribes?) All you are ultimately doing is the same, only you have to suffer low-level grind first.
Turning a game RPG just slows it down, and weakens the flow of the game. It's a substitute for progressive difficulty curves...
Oh I see. It makes more sense from a single player / Co-Op point of view. You're taking a team from low ranks up, unlocking more difficult missions as you go. The more difficult missions are often there early, for you to choose from but they will be difficult to complete. There's a challenge there but not one imposed by the game, one selected by the player. Bigger risk on the nastier missions means bigger reward.
To have it all at the start would mean that there is no progressive difficulty, which would not make for much of a Single Player or Co-Op game.
I think the problem here is that you're comparing them directly to other games, when Borderlands isn't like those at all.
Still don't like RPG in a non-RPG game, and it's nonsense to say that there would be no progressive difficulty. Many, many games give you full ability at the start, yet provide an ongoing challenge as they move along.
As for comparison...yes, that's what generally goes on (you yourself have comapred it to L4D and UT in part). Everything I have read about it so far sounds like Fallout 3 variant, which also holds no interest for me whatsoever... I simply don't like RPG elements bolted onto a different game type.
If you don't like it, you don't like it. Which is fair nuff. You're infalible. Mr "I can't run or do exercise because my knees are shot" Ganderton.
Knees are fine at the moment...the fortnightly physio is keeping them at bay (that and the massive strap that is semi-constantly on it).
Is Borderlands really not worth a go? I reckon it's light nature would make it a laugh in multiplayer.
As I've said from the start, it doesn't appeal to me personally due to the very nature of the game. It doesn't stop others playing it, and as it only supports 4-player (if I understand the above) it's not an issue if someone feels their time is better spent elsewhere...
That's not the point and you know it. The point is:
1. It's a laugh playing multiplayer games with your mates.
2. You've not given it a fair chance.
Although I admit that you don't need to play every game to know you're not going to like it, I think some games require an open mind and this is one of them. It's not stock. The RPG elements are not heavy and as a shooter, it's superb.
I don't give many things a fair chance... I quite simply don't have time to. It's not exactly news that I form opinions quickly, and often with little basis. Most of the time, however, my gut instinct is pretty much spot on.
Fallout 3 got dismissed as soon as someone compared to to Oblivion. Oblivion was dismissed as it was the same as Morrowind, and there's a game I played for 3 hours before getting a hack, blowing up a village and un-installing it.
Battlefield 2 got as far as the key re-bind screen before being relegated to the reject bin. It should consider itself lucky.
I refuse to watch any film with Meg Ryan in it on principle.
It's for reasons like this that reviews exist. This is why people view their opinions. That Matt has taken the time to do an objective explanation of the game (and many thanks to him...an un-biased descriptive of games and their mechanics is invaluable in helping me choose which games get a chance and which don't) saves me the time and money of getting this game, playing it for one or two hours before realising that I'm not actually enjoying it, but more suffering it to exist, before either un-installing it, or leaving the icon to gather dust on my desktop.
LOL, you'll never know if your gut instinct is spot on in this case! I get where you're coming from, it's a pity that's all.
You know I could apply every argument you've just given to Torchlight, which you dismissed with "I never liked Diablo"...
Is Torchlight different enough from Diablo to make it worth a look?
Dunno, never played Diablo...
EMW said:
And here I am some 13 years on from the original and 9 from the sequel playing the third game ... no wait this isn't right. It looks like diablo plays a lot like it even sounds like it yet for some reason it's got "Torchlight" scrawled on the metaphorical box (since it's digital distribution only) must be a misprint or something.
Pete said:
It's for reasons like this that reviews exist. This is why people view their opinions. That Matt has taken the time to do an objective explanation of the game (and many thanks to him...an un-biased descriptive of games and their mechanics is invaluable in helping me choose which games get a chance and which don't)
This difference is what essentially drives us. I will download loads of things I might not like and give them a go. You don't. I'd hate to miss out on something I might really like, game can come a long way. Torchlight looks like the next logical step.
I don't have time to do that. Currently I reckon I get about 3-4 hours of time a week I can realistically dedicate to playing games, or other activities (such as finishing painting those damn terminators...unless I get a rare day like last Sunday where the weather killed off plans).
I'd rather spend that time playing games I enjoy...
The whole experience levelling RPG thing does seem to pop up everywhere these days, apparently even the latest Forza Motorsports has a experience system in it.
I don't necessary think it's a bad thing I quite like the whole new toys aspect of unlocking new abilities tho I wish they would stop doing that "start the game with all the powers then for some reason get them all taken away" thing.
But then not everyone likes the same things and reviews are one way to get an idea if this game is your cup of tea or not. Which is why I write them since I figure if I can share my experience with it other people will have a better idea of whether it's worth their time and money.
Torchlight is very diablo like but then again so is Borderlands they share a lot of key similarities and some obvious differences. The player skill aspect is more prevalent in borderlands it rewards skill a bit more, plus you can run things over in your car. But then in torchlight you get a dog and the loot dropping is much higher. The both share the same random weapons constant upgrade thing where you are continually swapping out weapons for new and better ones that were on the corpse of your enemies or stuffed in a bin somewhere.
I can see why you might end up grinding in Borderlands though so far I've not had to I just take all the missions available wander about finishing them picking up new weapons and generally killing everything in sight. Occasionally early on I found some of the missions too tough but it was usually a case of trying it a few times finding I wasn't yet up to the task and leaving it doing the other missions for a bit and coming back.
I have to say a few days on I'm finding it fairly easy in one on one fights I don't know if I've just out levelled the current environment or if I've just been lucky with the weapon drops (my current favourite pistol is call cold torment and is metal storm in hand gun form). While one on one fights are not too much of a challenge the missions tend to be about going up against large groups anyway so that makes things more interesting the tactics aspect of approaching a base picking off the snipers with my own sniper rifle taking out turrets with some phase walking sneekyness and well placed grenades then mowing down the rest of the grunts still has plenty of enjoyment value.
Rob, Fish, and myself had a go of this co-op last night.
It has almost criminally bad Network code. To even begin playing online you need a gamespy id so that means registering with yet another service with yet more passwords and accounts to remember. Once you have that you can sign in to the multiplayer section of the game and then you have to add your friends so you can group with them a tedious process as there is no cut and paste supported. At this point you can fire up a private game but the odds are it will immediately fail and time out.
To actually get it to work you have to manually forward a set of ports found by scanning the current network activity with the server running, as apparently it can use different ones depending on configuration host os and lunar cycle, and then maybe just maybe the thing will actually connect after the second or third attempt.
When we did finally get the thing connected we were getting some crippling lag that meant it was almost impossible to play, rubber banding all over the place, enemies teleporting, no way of knowing if what you are aiming it is where it appears to be or indeed if it is already dead.
For those moments when it did work it was quite a lot of fun, there was some disparity with our levels of our single player characters (me 28 rob 17 fish 5) so we all took new characters. I'm not sure what if the game actively compensates for level disparity if it doesn;t I can see it could be a bit difficult maintaining a group of people since inevitably even if you keep a character just for group play the levels will get out of alignment at somepoint.
Since we were at the beginning we didn't have a lot of toys or access to the vehicles but still it was a still quite fun to play once we got it working. Though towards the end the lag was getting unbearable.
It's really really awful network code. For a game that is based on the Unreal Engine 3 which has bulletproof network code built in they must have gone out of their way to fuck that thing up. The fact that it uses none of steams built in networking paths is really odd given this is made by Gearbox who made their name doing halflife addons. It feels like with a lot of the game that this was made for the consoles and the pc version is just something the hacked together out of the same code. The networking like something from 1980's having to manually forward ports and fiddle with router settings just to get a private game going. For a game that sells itself as a multiplayer co-op game it's ridiculous that they let the thing ship with this level of piss poor network code.
It does have a lan mode which maybe works better, perhaps that was all they tested.
With any luck they will be patching this thing and soon because as it stands multiplayer is crippled for pc players.
I agree with all of that. Just to add that if your "group" character gets behind, you can use it in single player to catch up. A funny situation but workable.
They blame lag. I think they couldn't play for shit.